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Namine Moonflight/Log1
This is the documentation of the debate on the possible deletion of the article ''[[Namine Moonflight|''Namine Moonflight]]. Please do not modify it! Normally I might start this off by saying "No offence" but it's just not worth it. This character belongs in Goldshire with all the other children (half or otherwise) of the various major characters in WoW! That above post was by me. Ok, and it doesn't leave my tag even when I'm logged in! That "me" is Gurfang Delete? This article has been suggested for deletion for the following reason: Character's backstory heavily contradicting the lore (Close relative of a major lore character - Remulos) I'd like to ask all editors to cast their votes if we should KEEP or DELETE the article, and explain the reasons why it should be kept or deleted. Don't forget to sign (~~~~) your vote! Only votes from registered users will be accepted! You can question the other editors' votes, however, you have to keep a civilized tone! Do not start flaming! I will summarize the results, and decide if the article will be kept or deleted, after a week. - Snicka 10:47, 21 June 2009 (UTC) I think we should save the page, but can it be deleted temporarly? Namine (Steven irl) was a pretty good friend of me while I was in SWO.. SWO is a good RP-guild who do-not normally accept these kinds of things and they are pretty in to Lore. I suggest someone contacts her in-game or talk to Drakonis.. Over and out bitches! -Siheld :This technically counts as on KEEP vote, I think. The article will not be deleted until the discussion is over, but the DELETE tag will not be removed. (There's no such thing as "temporary delete". If we agree on deleting, then it's final) - Snicka 11:18, 21 June 2009 (UTC) Namine's story Uuhm, okay, the fact that Remulos is my father is not really something that's against the lore. Remulos has had countless of daughters and sons, like the WoWwiki page clearly stated. I'm just one of them. And I-in no way- roleplay her as someone who uses that fact to get power everywhere. I don't roleplay an overpowered druid either. That's why I made her so young in the first place. Ic'ly, Nam more than once needed the assistance of Miriel. And I believe one has the choice to connect himself to lore characters, if there is a possibility to do it. And in my case, it is very possible. I'm just one of the countless daughters of Remulos. And to be fairly honest, I don't care if anyone deletes my story then. The night elf Rp community (swo, keepers) both know my background story and never objected, quite on the contrary, they accepted it. I've been Rp'ing this char for almost 2 years now, and I'm not going to change my background story. - :You might be a good roleplayer in general but your background story is in contradiction with WoW lore therefore no matter how many sons Remulos had I do not agree with this, just as the RP community of SSL in general should. Why I say we should not delete it, it has to be edited in a suitable way. The SSL RP wiki is supposed to represent the RP from the realm, while sadly there exists such type of sons of lore character RP, we do not want it on this wiki proving that the RP community keeps to the lore not being another cliche. :As to SWO and The Keepers, I might not know fully everything about how they accepted this background but if this is so they might rethink their own style of roleplay. While I am not fully into Night Elf lore I still know a few things, to add a point is the thing that your character is a Night elf and no dryad, while Remulos has only sons and daughters who are dryads. Please do not try to counter with exceptions and other stuff but take this as constructive critics, in the end you should not be surprised that people react this way. And I doubt the thing you dont roleplay your character as powerful or not changes something. - Shadowtroll ::So Shadowtroll technically said KEEP AFTER EDITING backstory, am I right? ::Can you guys please sign your post with four tildes? It makes administration much easier! - Snicka 11:34, 21 June 2009 (UTC) There is no possibility to edit it. Everyone in SWo as well as Ilanowyr know that Nam is one of Remulos' daughters and they accept it. How is it even possible then to suddenly change the story without having any repercussions Ic'ly? I can't just go say: oh hey guys, sorry, he wasn't my father, I've been lying for 2 years. And to be honest, there is only one element I use in Rp from my background, and that's my glowing hatred for Fandral Staghelm. True, I understand that it isn't the most original Rp story, but it was written 2 years ago, when I started playing here on official and I knew about 0 about RP. I posted it on SWo forums, no one ever objected. So I kinda realized it must have been okay then. (end of objective part of this post, now the more subjective side) If you guys believe this is something that can't pass and is absolutely breaking every rule of Rp, then pretty much 80% of all stories out there has some thing in it that is against the "lore". People dying all the time and being brought back, Dk's that aren't part of the scourge but also never took part in the battle for light's hope, even multiple arch-druids while there technically only should be one. - : I have to admit, that Namine/Vewen got a point here. This wiki is about our server's alternative lore, which is not the same as the basic warcraft lore. - Snicka 11:37, 21 June 2009 (UTC) ::Well I would not speak in the name of two RP guilds because believe me this matter will be bough to them as well, no one can make you change your background story, but being taken as a serious roleplayer is up to you. And you wont be taken as such with such a story, or at least not by me. ::As to Wow Lore contradictions everywhere, we do not accept them either - do not think we do this only for you this matter is and will be raised by similar occasions. As to your named examples, why I agree that game mechanics do put many RP opportunity's in boxes and that player's do break the boxes (as for example not roleplaying being part of your faction while though game mechanics you are) you also have to agree that WHILE this could/is a lore contradiction is a far minor one which is rarely discussed, or when is with a good argument. If this is NOT the case it is again not accepted. - :::And yes, you can ask any member of SWO or the keepers, I roleplay Namine as a young druid that's honing her skills. The fact that I am away quite a while due to RL busines, is why I I put it there, so that can serve as an excuse for not being online for events and all. :::And only dryads? That's never been said lore-wise. :::And if Zaetar can produce centaur when mating with some oversized ugly elemental, why should an elf not be likely then? Vewen ::::Look, I do not want at any cost destroy your background story or whatever saying your bad at RP. Fact is I myself am interested in expanding this wiki therefore having no use in deleting articles however while I like to distance myself as far as possible from so called elite roleplayer's who do take WoW lore (in my opinion) too serious there are some things which even I have my problems to close my eyes upon. ::::While I dont want that this turns out into a lore discussion either I add that yes, such loop holes as for example, you said that its never said to be ONLY dryads, can be used in a creative way to create RP. I agree, that's why this wiki is created representing the server's lore as Snicka said above. ::::While I can as well imagine that other, without doubt, good roleplayers accept your story its still hard for me to accept it! And for this neither I can be blamed, if the above said is true (I doubt you lie in even on sentence) the people who did not correct your background story at time are to be blamed. - Captain Shadowtroll And I never wanted to refuse this discussion, I am open for suggestions, hence why I'm participating in this discussion. I could have also just continued and let you guys talk all you want here. As far as I can tell, Rp from players always has certain glitches compared to the official lore. Some things can be changed, if they are done in a responsible way and if they don't touch the major lore events (like for exemple, saying you killed Illidan during the third war). At the time, it seemed fun to be original and intertwine Nam's story partially with that of an NPC, so I could absorb part of the lore around that character and let Namine continue on that trail, hence why Namine became a druid and is part of the cenarion circle. I never had any intention to suddenly go break major lore events, I read all the lore on wowwiki I could find on Remulos and his family. It was never my intention to suddenly go Rp like: "Cenarius is my grandfather, I can root you to the ground and destroy you in 2 seconds, so step aside". I hate power-roleplayers(like Algorath did for quite some time, annoyed me beyond hell). That's why I limited the powers of Namine and everything, so she could fit in, be part of the normal elven community without becoming essential for WoW lore. I know you guys hate the fact that I wans't original, and it seemed like it was my intention to power-rp, but it never was. It was just an idea I had, and one I worked out. And I placed the necessary fail-safes to prevent Namine from becoming a super-druid(I could think of at least 500 other ways to get to that easier than by my story). That's why I'm asking for a bit of understanding from my point of view, why I believe my story isn't lore-raping. At this moment, I see no other way to change my story than to kill Namine Ic'ly and start Rp'ing a new elf. And this is impossible to me, as I don't have the money or the will to pay for regendering-renaming Namine. not to mention that would require a whole lot of work to get my char into the Rp community again, while Namine is respected and known. vewen While yes its no lore-rape as you call it(rather a deformation)you will need to very detailed explain this over and over again because people will do ask so and in fact, they cant be arsed for doing so. While I dont know you, I doubt you have created it for power roleplay or anything similar as your examples above. While I as well understand not changing a two year old on going story because at once people did not liked it, you have to agree its quiet eyebrow raising when people reading it. I currently can't think any possible compromise of how to come a result leaving both sides happy I just might tell you rethinking an edit. If you edit it or not is up to you. As for the last, no one can make you kill your character and demanding such a thing would be the other end and stupid just as silly. --Captain Shadowtroll 12:15, 21 June 2009 (UTC) Well, to be honest, the only thing I can think of right now, is that Remulos will still be my father, but an adoptive father, someone who took care of Namine since her parents died. Does that sound more lore-wise responsible? I'll still be his daughter, but only an adoptive daughter. With this solutation, I won't have to destroy her and I can more or less let her be who she is, while cutting the connection that would make me a lore-contortion. And to Siheld that posted above, my story was on the forums while Siheld had acces to it, I even edited new pieces while he had acces to SWO forum, and he never said a thing either. So now coming to tell me the story is wrong is a bit late Siheld ;) Vewen In all honesty, the above suggested by you idea sounds good for me but so far only I have commented and do not change anything just because of my, more or less, ranting here. However I feel like I said everything, even if it does not suit you keep doing so but my last post includes what you would most likely to repeat. However in the ends it is totally up to you and I would rather draw more opinions before doing anything. --Captain Shadowtroll 12:27, 21 June 2009 (UTC) Yeh well, at this moment, there is no one that appreciates it as it is. Gurfang completely wants to banish me to goldshire(I do not deserve such a punishment, I'm sure there are other ways of torture you can think of), Siheld wants me to edit it(okay, he could have said that earlier) and C'pain Shadowtroll wants to see it in a different form. I don't think there are much other people looking at this page, so there's only one suggestion I still need. And that's from Snicka. And if my story is going to keep on creating this mess in the future, like C'pain Shadowtroll thinks, I might just as well change it now, better early than late. Vewen I think if the KotG and SWO think it is correct and not in fight with Lore, we let it stay! Uhm..or am I a bit to late now? - :I'm already rewriting it anyhow, I don't want this mess to continue. And Im sticking with the adoption idea, so I can keep Nam's name. :Vewen 14:44, 21 June 2009 (UTC) Vewen I have to agree with Siheld and Shadowtroll in the fact that the original backstory is a bit surprising, and resembles a bit too much to those of "Goldshire RP-ers". The way you are altering it, however, is an acceptable one. I am locking this debate now with the result of: KEEP article, but MODIFY the controversial part. - Snicka 15:49, 21 June 2009 (UTC) It has already been changed to the thing that was suggested above, I believe this is an acceptable story now while still keeping the elements in it. I hope you like this version better.^^ 15:53, 21 June 2009 (UTC) Vewen